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Forum URL: http://www.cut-the-knot.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/forumctk.cgi
Forum Name: High school
Topic ID: 185
#0, induction and function
Posted by matemusic on Jul-30-02 at 08:32 AM
Hi,
here's a "little" problem i found in a book about induction :
Let's f a function from the naturals integers N to N that satisfy:
* f(1) > 0
* f(m² + n²) = (f(m))² + (f(n))²
I've calculate f(m) for m = 0 to 20 and find f(m) = m for all these values, but how can we give a good induction proof of this fact, i don't know ? ...
Could someone help me, please ! ...
Apologize for my poor english . Thanks
Best regards

#1, RE: induction and function
Posted by alexb on Jul-30-02 at 08:38 AM
In response to message #0
Try simple cases. What do you get plugging in m = n = 0? What do you get if only one of them is 0?

#2, RE: induction and function
Posted by matemusic on Aug-01-02 at 07:52 AM
In response to message #1
>Try simple cases. What do you get plugging in m = n =
>0? What do you get if only one of them is 0?
Of course it'easy to prove that f(0)=0 and f(n²)=(f(n))², even it'rather easy to calculate f(1),f(2), then f(4),f(8) , then f(5) (plug m=2,n=1), then f(3) (plug m=3,n=4) ,etc...
In fact i have calculate f(m) for m=0 to 20 and i stop to 20 because I wanted a general proof of the "obvious" fact that f(m) = m by induction, but it does'nt seem to be quite so easy
Thanks a lot if you could help me
sincerely

#3, RE: induction and function
Posted by sanjay on Aug-18-02 at 12:07 PM
In response to message #0
Induction generally can only be used on integer
arguments because the proof depends on a process
that hits every number. Keeping this in mind, here
is a general guideline that should assist you in
solving the induction problem above:

Firstly, make sure you know where you are
starting from. It is usually a good idea to
include both 0 and 1 in the base cases. (They
can be calculated by hand and then assumed in the
rest of the induction.)

f(0) = 0
f(1) = 1

In induction, we assume that we have already proved
that f(m) = m for all values of m <= k, and then
we prove that f(k+1) = k+1. This should help you
get started on your inductive proof.

Sanjay
Sanjay


#4, RE: induction and function
Posted by Michael Klipper on Aug-19-02 at 06:42 AM
In response to message #3
One thing that might be useful to know is that the summation property of this function does not have to be restricted to two terms. For example, f(a^2 + b^2 + c^2) = (f(a))^2 + (f(b))^2 + (f(c))^2, which is easily proven through iteration of the sum property.

The reason why this property is useful is that, although not every number is a sum of two perfect squares, every number must be a sum of some finite number of perfect squares (at worst, n is the sum of n ones).